On this What the Floor Podcast episode, Michael and Holiday grabbed some meatballs and lingonberries while they sat down with Sean Brennan and Emily Holmes-Williams of Kahrs. We talked about the Kahrs origin story, their GreenStep 2023 award nomination, and everything else you could possibly want to know about their hardwood journey and how this Swedish company truly sets itself apart.
What the Floor is a T&A Supply Company Inc original production. You can find out more about us at tasupply.com or tasflooring.com. This show is produced by Jose Morales with help from Toni Collier and Jessica Riser. Tell us what you think of the show at wtfpodcast@tasupply.com or #whatthefloorpodcast on social media to let us know what you think.
On this What the Floor Podcast episode, Michael and Holiday grabbed some meatballs and lingonberries while they sat down with Sean Brennan and Emily Holmes-Williams of Kahrs. We talked about the Kahrs origin story, their GreenStep 2023 award nomination, and everything else you could possibly want to know about their hardwood journey and how this Swedish company truly sets itself apart.
What the Floor is a T&A Supply Company Inc original production. You can find out more about us at tasupply.com or tasflooring.com. This show is produced by Jose Morales with help from Toni Collier and Jessica Riser. Tell us what you think of the show at wtfpodcast@tasupply.com or #whatthefloorpodcast on social media to let us know what you think.
This is What the Floor from T&A Supply Company Inc, a podcast for the flooring industry. I'm Holiday Van Erem.
Michael Goria:And I'm Michael Goria. We're going to explore the hot topics of the flooring industry with a little humor and a new set of eyes.
Holiday Van Erem:So today we've got another fun interview with some folks on the East Coast.
Michael Goria:Yeah, I'm pumped. We are interviewing Sean Brennan and Emily Holmes Williams from Kahrs International.
Holiday Van Erem:We've sold Kahrs for a long time, and I'm excited that we decided to finally have them on and have them tell the story of Kahrs.
Michael Goria:Yeah, it's been fun. We've had Kahrs for four years now. And just last week, we kind of did a relaunch. We have salespeople that weren't around when we first launched Kahrs. And we just felt like it was a good time in the market. And so now to dentin that with this podcast, I think will be great. Hopefully, if you're listening and you're a customer, you've got the new Kahrs repitch and are excited to go out and resell it as well.
Holiday Van Erem:Yeah. So I know we had a really good conversation with them, and we had some fun, and we learned a lot about Kahrs and where it came from.
Michael Goria:Yeah, I mean, you'll hear in the podcast. I mean, there are things even I learned and I have spent a lot of time with these folks. I've obviously been out doing PKS on Kahrs for years. And so to learn something new to put a little new spin on my presentation will be fun. I look forward to it.
Holiday Van Erem:Yeah. So here's our interview with Emily and Sean.
Michael Goria:All right. Well, welcome Sean and Emily, we appreciate you guys coming on the podcast.
Emily Holmes Williams:Thanks for having us.
Sean Brennan:Yeah, thank you.
Michael Goria:We're excited to get into a full Kahrs conversation. This is something that we've been talking about off and on since we've been doing the podcast. So we appreciate you guys jumping on.
Holiday Van Erem:Now, we don't always dive into hardwood, which is you know, Michael's little baby there and his chance to go all hardware on everybody.
Michael Goria:Well, why don't we start? Would you both take turns introducing yourselves, just who you are, where you guys are located, and kind of what your job titles and roles are with Kahrs.
Sean Brennan:Sean Brennan, and I am President of the Kahrs U.S. division. And our headquarters for the U.S. is in Altamonte Springs, Florida. So just north of Orlando.
Emily Holmes Williams:And I'm Emily Holmes Williams. I'm Vice President for Kahrs. And I'm also in the Orlando office at the U.S. headquarters.
Holiday Van Erem:Wonderful.
Michael Goria:I think this is important. Can you both tell us how long you have both been at Kahrs?
Emily Holmes Williams:Almost 22 years, for me.
Sean Brennan:And I'm coming up on that. I guess it's--so it'd be about 20--just over 21, 21 and a half years now.
Holiday Van Erem:Wow.
Sean Brennan: [Inaudible 2:33] people.
Holiday Van Erem:Yes. That's impressive. So, you know, most of our listeners are probably familiar with the name, but I don't think that they probably know a lot about who Kahrs is--what Kahrs is? So that's my first question, which is, tell us a little bit about the history of Kahrs? Where did the origin of Kahrs--where does that come from? Where does that start?
Sean Brennan:You have to go back actually to 1857. So that's the year that Kahrs was founded. And it was a family-run business. And so we started in a little town in Sweden, called Nybro, Sweden. It was a little town back then--still a little town today. But we started working with wood, and originally, it was manufacturing doors. Then it led to other furniture pieces and eventually led to toys. So it was always working with wood. But that was the foundation and limited to starting just in that area in Sweden first and then building from there, but really limited to the country of Sweden. That's where most of the products were manufactured.
Sean Brennan (cont.):It's always been a family-run business up until about the 1980s. But I think it was the third generation at the time, and the 1930s actually came up with the multi-layered floor, which today is known as the engineered wood floor. Kahrs is credited today with the invention of the engineered wood floor, and we had the patent on that for several years actually.
Sean Brennan cont.:I always like to tell the story behind it. It's pretty interesting. It was in the 1930s when they started to come up with this multi-layered concept playing The royal family actually asked the Kahrs group, the Kahrs family, to manufacture an outdoor tennis court. So one of the Kahrs family had been experimenting with this multi-layered floor and thought it'd be a great idea. It's made out of wood, of course. So it's three different components of around with it and seeing what worked, what didn't work. And wood and actually constructed this outdoor tennis court. It was created just in time for a big royal event that they were having at the time. And they were shocked actually at how well it performed and how stable it was. Of course, being outside then it was right after, I guess a little bit, a number of years it didn't last forever. It went through one or two winters and of course, like anything probably completely warped and was destroyed. But that's really what gave them the idea that if we do this in a controlled environment, and we do this indoors, this can perform extremely well because really after World War I when there started to be a boom and an all wood flooring at that time was essentially a solid piece of floor. And there was a lot of warping, you didn't have the climate controls, of course, back then. So that's really where this developed was that when you came up with this type of three-layer, multi-layer construction using these explosion when it came to homebuilding across the world component parts all found locally in Sweden, they came up with the perfect formula that created a very stable floor. And that really changed the direction of Kahrs. Because up until that point, it was furniture, doors, as I said but certainly there in Sweden as well. toys, dabbling a little bit in wood flooring, and they made the decision at that point when they secured the patent to devote all energy to producing wood flooring.
Holiday Van Erem:Very interesting.
Michael Goria:That's kind of a cool story.
Holiday Van Erem:I love that.
Michael Goria:Based on that history, what is Kahrs today? I mean, what do you guys focus on? What's really--who is Kahrs as a company?
Sean Brennan:Yeah. So it's interesting, because we have, obviously, a long history and being established that long, we've really built a good reputation when it comes to the quality of our products. And I think what's interesting is, of course, as technology has evolved as floorcovering, hard surface floor covering has evolved because that's all we focus on is hard surface flooring. Of course, we've diversified our product range. But what's interesting is that original multi-layered construction really has not changed since that invention in the 1940s. You know, they really found that perfect formula that keeps the board dimensionally stable, they've tested a lot of other ways of doing it and tried to change to see if it would be better. And really, the determination was that it's not. That what they developed at that time really is the best way to construct an engineered wood
Sean Brennan cont.:What of course has changed a lot is the floor. types of finishes that we put on products or the joint system as well, that's gotten, you know, starting from a basic tongue and groove now to our Woodloc joints. So there have been a lot of technological advances, of course, as a company. When it comes to that original construction, we really still follow that base. But when you look at Kahrs today, our goal is to be the premium hard surface supplier around the world. And I think that's what's probably been the most remarkable change that we've had really since the 1940s is that we've expanded, of course, outside of Scandinavia. It really wasn't until the 1980s, that we decided to go international where we expanded into other parts of Central Europe. We expanded into Asia. And then, of course, we established the organization in North America. We were originally in California, and in the 1980s and then relocated to Florida, right around 2000. So it was during that time when Kahrs started to take these big jumps forward and start to market its products really around the world. We always had, of course, a well-established base in Sweden and Scandinavia, but really built a reputation of quality when it comes to wood flooring and a good reputation for how we produce our products as well. Today, we have a reach into well over 5060 countries around the world with personnel based in 17 of them, actually. So that's really what I'd say the biggest changes that we had here are the technological innovations, and the joint system, and how products are produced. And then, of course, expanding internationally.
Holiday Van Erem:It's a much larger operation than I originally had imagined.
Michael Goria:Yeah, impressive.
Sean Brennan:It is impressive when you're at the factory and you do the tour, and you see the log yard that we have, and how it's evolved over time. Because the location of the original factory is still there. There are some original buildings that are still there and more for historical purposes, but they're there. And then it's, of course, expanded there. And the benefit of being in a small town is there's still a lot of land in that area to expand if necessary,
Holiday Van Erem:I do find that it's interesting. You talked about how the technology of how they produce the floor really hasn't changed. It's such the opposite of other products that are constantly changing the way that the technology is used. When they figured it out. They figured it out. And they've tried to find different and better ways to make it, and they always keep going back to "No, this is really the way to do it. This is the way." It's very interesting that with a product like hardwood that they really haven't found a better way to do it.
Sean Brennan:Yeah. No, it's true. And what's interesting, too, is even at the factory today, we have some third or fourth-generation people that are working there because this is a relatively small town. And so there's just a lot there's a lot of technical knowledge, of course, that's been passed down. I think it has something to do with--you know, there weren't, of course, climate controls, like you have today, back then. And so they really had to spend some time experimenting and coming up with dimensionally what is that perfect formula. So it's kind of the Kahrs secret that we have today when it comes to the moisture contents and exactly how each of the layers should be constructed. But yeah, that's been passed down, of course, from generation to generation. And yeah, there's really no reason to change here because it's kind of proven in the quality of the products as we've gone forward.
Holiday Van Erem:So how does Kahrs go to market in the U.S. specifically? You talked about you've got lots of different countries that you're selling, manufacturing, and working in. But for the U.S. market, what is your go-to-market strategy?
Sean Brennan:Our strategy, when we first started in the U.S., we kind of dabbled a little bit on the west coast with distribution, and then on the East Coast, trying to sell to a handful of dealers up and down trying to just kind of build the concept of what a floating floor is. And with our joint system, you know, there was a lot of education that had to happen in the U.S. market.
Sean Brennan cont.:Really, though, in the early 2000s, we made the decision to go national, and really focus on distribution across the country. And so that's been predominantly how we've gone to market over the last 20-some years is that we go out and we find the best distributor in the area like T&A Supply in Seattle, and we build a network with them. We get the commitment from them, and we're committed to them as well, and then just invest that way across the country. And that's really how we built our reputation and kind of our national exposure. If you fast forward to today a little bit, certainly, the market has changed a lot in the last several years. On the distribution side, there's been a lot of consolidation and changes. And so we're very still heavily dependent on our core distributors; that's the majority of our business. But we do have areas of the country that we're namely, I'd say, down here in the southeast, where we're based, where we're working with dealers directly and where we're assuming a little bit of the distribution model. But overall, that's not our strategy. I mean, we're a relatively small company in the U.S. Globally, we're fairly big, we're just under 2000 employees when you include our factory, but relatively small in the U.S. And that's because we can rely on our distribution partners in most areas of the country to bring our products to market.
Holiday Van Erem:And what I did not hear you say is home centers and large box stores. So your target is the retail dealer store, you're not looking at box stores, you're not in the big ones.
Sean Brennan:Yeah. No, we're not in that area. We've really kind of built our product portfolio to be into that mid, into the premium segment. And so, we always tell people: Kahrs is a product that has to be sold, it's not going to just sell itself and certainly not on price. You know, producing in Sweden and in Europe, it's basically the same as producing in the U.S. So we put a big focus on quality, but it's not necessarily low-cost production by any means.
Sean Brennan cont.:So we need to be in that segment, so we target the specialty for covering dealer that understands hardwood that has that background in education and knows how to sell the products. And then, of course, they're targeting the consumers that either need some design advice. Maybe they have a designer involved or a little bit more customer service that the specialty dealer can provide, and so that's really our bread and butter and what our target is. We do quite a few multifamily projects, and so many times that does go through a dealer sometimes with the contractor directly, a flooring contractor, with the ease of installation with some of our products. It's done well in the multifamily setting and so so we've diversified our customer base but yeah, you're absolutely correct. You wouldn't find it in, say, Home Depot or Lowe's.
Michael Goria:And that's been important to us as a distributor is they've been a great partner. Now we've had a partner that focuses on us and then our customers; not on, you know, how much volume the big box stores could do for somebody like yourself. So we embrace that partnership
Holiday Van Erem:And we appreciate it.
Michael Goria:Kahrs was known for so long and still is, I think, as a premium hardwood manufacturer. But in recent years, you guys have gotten into several other product categories, and you've been in them for a while. But can you explain or go into detail on what other product categories you guys are in?
Emily Holmes Williams:I guess it was 2011 that we acquired the
[inaudible 14:01] brand, which is a brand of PVC-free resilient flooring. Yeah, so up sheet goods. So, they have since come under the Kahrs' umbrella and the [inaudible 14:11] is dissolving. But we've got that. We've also got a brand of hybrid flooring called AWARE that we saw when we did the relaunch of CNA and it's a new concept for us. It's a hybrid floor that has PVC-free and bio-based components to it. It's a recycled material, and it also has some natural fillers to it with actually a commercially-rated finish on it. It can also go in the home. And then we have our luxury tiles line which has stone and [what looks for it 14:44]. But we also have that in a click and we have it in dry back, so it can go into both residential and commercial settings. So we're more of a well-rounded hard surface company now than just the hardwood.
Sean Brennan:I would say we were strictly hardwood up until probably 2000. So was only hardwood flooring. And then after that is when some of these acquisitions were made and then started to expand into other hard surfaces. So we've never gotten into carpet and probably won't. There's no, no desire to do that. But hard surfaces, we're definitely looking to continue to expand in that category.
Holiday Van Erem:So what would you say if we put it on a pie chart, how much of your business today is still hardwood versus other categories?
Sean Brennan:Yeah, you're probably looking at 80 to 85%.
Holiday Van Erem:Okay.
Sean Brennan:Still, globally. So definitely, that's where we built our reputation. And the other segments have done well for us, and they've grown but I think just being a company that's only worked with wood, going back to the 1850s, really is going to keep us in that area. That's always going to be our foundation, definitely, and what we build, kind of a company. You know, everything will get built around that, but hardwood will definitely be the focus of Kahrs.
Holiday Van Erem:What separates Kahrs from the competition in our marketplace? What is the Kahrs difference?
Emily Holmes Williams:It starts with our longevity. Kahrs has been in business for 166 years. So we really know what we're doing with the product. And as Shawn alluded to earlier, we haven't made any major changes to the construction of the floor. The only thing that we have done is to make it better. And that is improving our locking system. So anything that we can do to make the product better for the homeowner, easier to maintain, easier to install, and just to perform better for them, we do that. I know other companies do it as well. But we really placed a big emphasis on that. And just being the inventors of the floor, we know what we're doing. So we continue to do the same things and try to reinvent ourselves almost with new collections, new products, new surface finishes, and things like that.
Emily Holmes Williams cont.:lifetime. We have floors that have been installed since the 40s back in Sweden, and they look, you know like it's a [cold/warm/worn 17:04] floor, but they're still down. So we have the lowest claims rate in the industry based on our percentage of sales, and we really stand behind our products. We want our floors to perform. We want to get our customers to love their floors. We use every bit of the log when we're producing the floor. We don't want to be a drain on natural resources. Sustainability has always been a key component to everything that Kahrs has done. In some newer markets, it's a little bit just, it started to become a trendy thing. And now it's evolving into a way of life just like it is in Sweden, but we were on the forefront of that. So a lot of it has to do with going back to our history and just the quality of the product that we make.
Sean Brennan:If you look at the product itself, what Kahrs is known for is the very long lengths, that construction that we put in gives us the stability to be able to do that, and very long length, and then the joint system. So a lot of products that are similar are generally tongue-and-groove products. And so we try to distinguish by offering the Woodloc joint system which we were the first to introduce on a wood floor back in 1999. And then that's evolved since then. Today we use primarily the 5S joint but which enables it to be floated or glued down very easily. And then when you take those two aspects of it, and then you combine it with, as Emily kind of touched on, how we produce and utilize the full log. You know, I think there are very few companies out there that maybe put all of that together. Some of them, of course, have different aspects of it that they focus on. But we put all of it together in kind of one product here. And I think that's what kind of helps separate us a little bit from the competition.
Sean Brennan cont.:Some people might say, Oh, is it a little bit niche the way it's produced that way, but the reality is, when you really dig into and you learn about our products, you see that it can be installed in so many areas. It's very good in multifamily. We have a lot of different finishes that we can offer, you know, depending on the situation. And so I think that's what helps to distinguish it. What installers have told us over the years is that once they realize how easy it is to install, that's when they kind of get hooked because they can just do a lot more volume, especially in a multifamily setting and just move at a little bit of a faster pace with maybe a more traditional product that's tongue-and-groove that has to be glued down.
Michael Goria:I love these conversations because as much as I've talked to you guys, and we've had many meals together and long meetings together, I picked up something new that I'm going to use Emily and that is so many companies offer a lifetime warranty. However, they haven't been around for a lifetime.
Holiday Van Erem:Yeah.
Michael Goria:I mean, that's just something interesting to think about. Your floors have been down that long, you know, and nobody else--very few companies can say that. And I really like that. That's a good point.
Holiday Van Erem:Very good point. What are you doing with all of the logs that people are not using, other companies are not using? What are you using all of the different parts of the logs for?
Emily Holmes Williams:When we take a log, we slice out of the log as much as we can for floorings. The center of the tree--you can produce a plank product from because that's the widest part of the tree. And then on the sides of the tree, you get into the material that is not going to be as long and have as good a quality as far as like maybe knots and things like that. And so we use that material for what we call our
3-strip [Tres 23:23], which is our traditional [site, sand, and
finish 20:25] look, or even a little bit wider version, which would be called the 2-strip, which gives you a four-inch visual.
Emily Holmes Williams cont.:Then once we've taken every possible piece that we can and put it into a floor, the waste product from whatever is leftover, whether it's the bark, or just little shavings of unusable wood, that goes into production for pallets, and that pallet is used. Initially, it's just started being used to heat the town of Niebo, as well as our factory. And now we actually, because we have so much, we can provide that as an energy source to other European countries. So we have a natural pallet factory now. Lots of little [pallets
21:18] everywhere.
Sean Brennan:Yeah, so we built that in 2016, I guess. And so imagine, prior to that, all the sawdust that was generated would get loaded into trucks, shipped out to the energy plant to then use, you know, as Emily said, for energy in the town. And when we came up with this concept with a pallet factory, we were able to essentially take five trucks of sawdust and condense it to what would equal one truck. And then now, not only for the town of Niebro that has free heat, basically, it's a business model for us. So it's sold now around Europe, and actually was quite beneficial, especially over this past year, you know. Europe, obviously, with with the situation over there with the war, energy was a major, major concern. So it really helped to even power our own factory, let alone provide energy to surrounding areas and other countries. So it ended up being one of those situations. We knew it was going to be a good investment, something we had to do for our sustainability story. But even better than I think everybody anticipated with how it developed.
Michael Goria:Sean, time and time again, I tell people: try to find a flooring company with better sustainability environmental story. I challenge you to. Kahrs, you've been doing it for so long. You were doing it before it was cool. And I hate to say it that way because I think there are a lot of companies doing some really good things with good intentions. But you guys have been--it's again, it's just that history of having done it now for years. And now you're even transitioning into these new eras of how can we be even more sustainable. That's excellent. That's very fun to be able to promote.
Holiday Van Erem:Yeah, so I wanted to ask you about the nomination from Floor Covering Weekly for the GreenStep 2023. You're nominated in the international category for the Nybro Factory. So explain. Is there something new that you've done? Or is it just that long-term story and all of the things that they've done over the years to make that factory what it is and how it's set up to be sustainable? But is there something new that's happening or just the longevity of that?
Emily Holmes Williams:It's a little bit of both. It is the longevity, but it's also--in 2021, we started our climate-positive journey. And so we have--80% of our floors are produced within 124 miles of our factory or the material for it comes within 124 miles of the factory. We had a goal for 2025 of becoming 40%. We're using, I'm sorry, 40% less carbon emissions. And now we're down already 63%. So we've hit that goal and exceeded it. And it's only 2023.
Sean Brennan:Trying to be carbon neutral.
Emily Holmes Williams:Carbon neutral by 2040. So it all just goes on that we have 95% of our energy is renewable energy that we're using in the factory. And so it's just a combination of the longevity of the factory, but also our climate-positive journey as well.
Sean Brennan cont.:I think there was an invitation to maybe
Holiday Van Erem:Wow.
Sean Brennan:Well, we partnered with, especially in Europe, a number of the kind of environmental organizations. I think that's what has helped lead it as well. We recently 1000 companies across Europe that are allowed to participate just completed an audit with FSC and passed with flying colors. And then there are other kinds of eco things, like, called the Swan Label, which is a very high standard environmental certification that you have in Europe here. And so I think, as a result of that, is really what kind of led us down this path and it's a financing instrument, but it's kind of prestigious in here. What we've done and so far, I think, we're the only flooring company, but we are--actually, it's a bond that they have in Sweden and in Scandinavia here that only green the sense that the qualifications to get up there companies can participate in. really have to cover the circle completely. You know, it's not just, we use recycled packaging, or we do plant a few extra trees. They really had to look at everything. So we had to do this checklist of how we source. Okay, we know that we've achieved that for a long time, how we produce. Now, what we're doing with our waste, as well. How we're trying to reduce our carbon emission down to really a positive, it's actually more than neutral, it's to be positive by planting more trees than, of course, we're taking down. So all of that combined together, I think, is what's given us this status when it comes to sustainability. And then, yeah, hopefully, we'll do well with this award nomination here.
Holiday Van Erem:I'm rooting for you.
Michael Goria:Absolutely.
Holiday Van Erem:I'm voting for you.
Michael Goria:We'd vote for you.
Holiday Van Erem:Uh-huh.
Michael Goria:We don't have a vote.
Holiday Van Erem:Yeah--European company that we've talked to, and it just makes me feel good that somebody cares about the planet. I'm glad that you guys are gonna do something to help us fix what we're not dealing with over here. So it's fantastic.
Michael Goria:What do you think we can expect from Kahrs moving forward in the future? You guys have obviously come a long way. You've added more than just hardwood, especially in the last, let's call it, 10, 15, 20 years. Do you see that continuing? Is hardwood going to continue to be your focus? What is the plan for Kahrs in the next five-to-ten-year period?
Sean Brennan cont.:Yeah. So the plan is to keep evolving our range. We know that new products need to be launched every year. Innovations have always been extremely important for Kahrs. But we really want to elevate that into the next couple of years. So we're going to continue to look at hybrid flooring. We just launched this collection here. I think Emily touched on it, called the AWARE collection that is a 100% bio-based product with a cork backing. Of course, very niche, and very unique, and PVC-free. But we're going to look to continue to expand that. Not necessarily just with that product, but into other product categories as well. So, really, what we do when it comes to looking at a new innovation or a new type of product, is, does it fit our quality story and does it fit our sustainability story? As long as we can check those off, then we'll move forward and start to look at what the market opportunity is, right, and if there's a demand for the product. But definitely, on the wood side, you're gonna see--we're looking at some products that are much wider than even what we have today--in some cases, even longer planks, as well, always testing different finishes. Although we have quite a pretty wide range of finishes that we offer from oil, you know, all the way up to even a semi-gloss finish. But we've been looking at some products with ultra matte and tweaking it a little bit. So I think you're gonna see just a lot of maybe small changes on the product side, when it comes to wood, with also the testing, different size boards, pattern floors, and then also looking at some of this hybrid flooring going forward here. We're always trying to find ways to where we can produce good quality products that a consumer will enjoy that's made of natural components, but that uses as minimal of it as possible. So those are all the different types of least components that are going to go into what we're going to try to do here going forward.
Holiday Van Erem:I've heard you mentioned a couple of different times. One of the key differences with Kahrs is your different locking systems. So what are your different systems? What is the crème de la crème of the locking system for Kahrs, and how does that make a difference?
Emily Holmes Williams:We have two different locking systems. We have our 5G, which is basically the short end is going to drop into place. You'll hear an audible click, and then it's engaged. And then the long seam will just lock into place as well. Very easy for floating and for glue-down applications. That'll be found on all of our half-inch or 13-millimeter products. And then we have our 5S joint. The 5S joint is the same kind of blocking system on the long seam. And then on the short seam, it has a little wood composite pin that you push in, and that pulls the ends together. And the reason that we changed our locking joints or our joint systems to the locking is because it makes the joint stronger. So our traditional tongue and groove that we had when we started was a 1500-PSI to pull it apart, or for it to start coming apart because glue is as strong as it's ever going to be the day that you install it. Then with these two locking systems, the PSI is 6000. Again, just to make the product better, and it is a true locking system.
Emily Holmes Williams cont.:There are a lot of companies that will have a drop-in lock--excuse me, a clicking system. When it truly locks, it's harder to have anything happen. It's gonna move, especially if you're floating it as one monolithic piece. But it also makes it easy for people to glue it down if they want to. The nice thing about the locking systems for both of them is you can go greater expanses without having to put a transition. So you can go 80 by 160, which is huge for a floating floor. People just love [inaudible 30:05], like, moldings are always the bane of our existence.
Michael Goria:Yeah, but that's 60 x 180. I mean, when you tell people that because we're so used to 25 x 25, 40 x 40, 50 x50. It's impressive when a product can go 66 x 66. You know, that just crushes those products. So it's helpful.
Holiday Van Erem:We're just like, "Yeah, we know."
Michael Goria:Enough said.
Sean Brennan:Yeah, we see that especially when we're doing some multifamily. You know, that's really where it gets noticeable. And contractors get kind of happy because they realize how much they can technically save by not having to buy that many more moldings, you know, breaking [inaudible 30:37]. It gets interesting, then, in those kinds of projects.
Holiday Van Erem:Circling back around to anything new, are there any other new products that you guys have coming out that you want to mention or tease?
Emily Holmes Williams:The AWARE collection, which Shawn and I both kind of touched on earlier is the hybrid floor. We also have a Ground collection, which is our traditional 3-strip look. But it is in more up-to-date designer-oriented colors for oaks and in ash and that which T&A just recently launched. Then we have our Beyond Retro collection, which is an ultra-matte finish. So it's a great new finish. It gives that low luster so you can actually feel the wire brushing of the floor and it gives it kind of the look of an oil floor, but you don't have the maintenance of an oil floor. Then that has availability in 3-strip and also in plank products. All the same colors and rows of six colors overall--twelve products total.
Michael Goria:I really liked that one when I saw it because it gives you two different options: the plank visual, a little more expensive, but beautiful wide long plank. Then you could also go to the 3-strip option for maybe a little more economic. Or if you want that kind of site finished look, you know, no micro bevels. So I think that's a cool concept. Because you know, someone could do both. They could do the single strip upstairs in the 3-strip downstairs. You can mix it up, but you've got the same colors on both. I think that's a great idea.
Holiday Van Erem:So Michael, what is our Kahrs program at T&A? What do we have in stock? What do we focus on?
Michael Goria:Yeah, so we are heavily focused on the hardwood. We have about 32 stocking hardwood items that we stock here every day. The beauty is the expansiveness, if that's a word.
Holiday Van Erem:Oh, yeah, for sure.
Michael Goria:Okay. I'll go with it. Of the Kahrs line, we ship trucks every week from the Kahrs Pottsville, Pennsylvania location. So if you order something that's not in stock, or if we're out of stock, you can literally get that product in two to three weeks max, because we are rolling those trucks so often. We have chosen to go over the road versus rail because we've had so many issues with rail in the last couple of years. So we feel like we're able to service the full Kahrs line, and just stock 30, 32 of them at a time. And so we pick the best ones that we feel are good for our market. But we continue to make commitments. We do stock some of the LV as well. And we're constantly looking at other collections.
Holiday Van Erem:I like the sound of some of these new ones, too. They're very exciting.
Sean Brennan:Me, too.
Michael Goria:They're cool. I'm telling you, they've done a good job. I was excited to see some new hardwood [adds/add-ons/ads
33:20]. I think you guys were focused on some of the alternative products, whether it was LV in your click system with the dry back included. I love seeing some of the new hardwood colors. I think it just elevates and refreshes some of the hardwood in our collection.
Sean Brennan:We can't forget about our core. Right. So
[crosstalk 33:36].
Michael Goria:That's right. I know Toni has a question that I would love her to ask.
Holiday Van Erem:You're funny, Michael. I have heard Kahrs pronounced a lot of ways and I know that the correct way to say it is Kahrs. But even some of our own sales team will call it cars and our customer surely. So I wanted to know maybe what the story is behind the name, Kahrs, and what are some of the funny alternative names people have given it over the years?
Sean Brennan:Well, I think you've covered that. When a lot of people call it, they usually start with cars right? So that's kind of where it'll start. But ironically, the correct way to say it--a K in Swedish is pronounced like sh so it Sahrs. So if you're in Sweden everything is Sahrs, Sahr, Sahr. So I'm used to it now. I'm used to [inaudible 34:32] company a long time but I always tell people that come over there,"Yeah, just so you know, you're going to hear that third pronunciation of it." That one technically is the correct one. But yeah, it's usually Cares or Kahrs. Everyone's kind of used to it now to go with your--you'd ask where it originated. So it's the last name of the family. When old Kahr, who was the last of the family owners and that still worked for the company, actually moved from Sweden to California. So he had sold the company to actually a couple of builders and some other investors in Sweden, and he kind of started the international journey. When he moved to the U.S., I think just to keep it easy, and probably for his kids, he just said, "It should go by Kahrs in the U.S. And so that's how it kind of stuck, I think, and then stayed here. But yeah, technically, it's Sahrs. If you're over there in Sweden,
Michael Goria:If I introduce Sahrs to some of my reps, I think I might blow them, like their heads would explode. They have a hard enough time.
Holiday Van Erem:Michael, so we've got this new [inaudible
35:37] hardwood. Sahrs-something.
Michael Goria:We're gonna keep it simple.
Sean Brennan:We already have our Life collection. You could really confuse if you want to, but we're getting philosophical.
Michael Goria:We'll keep it simple.
Holiday Van Erem:That's a good question, Toni. Thank you.
Michael Goria:Yes, thank you. Anything else you guys want to promote or talk about--things you want our listeners to know about Kahrs?
Sean Brennan:Yeah, no, I mean, I think we've covered quite a bit. And I think it's just reminding people that we're not the--when the company first started, very dependent on, say, just 3-strip flooring, and just that type of look. And so we're still, even to this day, reminding people: no, we have just a wide portfolio of products here from yes, 3-strip, 2-strip, two plank products, a number of different widths, and a number of different finishes. At least that's what I've noticed the most over, at least since my career here over the last 20 years is we've really expanded the portfolio products. We've Americanized it a little bit more. And the fact that you can install our products if you can glue it down, you can nail it down, or float it. It's not just that 3-strip floating floor.
Sean Brennan cont.:We have a portfolio of products that really go into any application when somebody is looking for hardwood. And what I always tell people is, "Yeah, if you're buying a condo, and you're gonna flip it or a house in two or three years, yeah, maybe you want to look at some other type of product. But if this is the home that you want to invest in, and you're gonna be here for, you know, four or five years, or longer or a lifetime, Kahrs is the product to consider just because of all the quality attributes and sustainability story. Everything we offer, I think, is exciting. And it's fun for Emily and me to work for a company that makes good quality products that are just fun to promote.
Michael Goria:Absolutely.
Emily Holmes Williams:I think, also--I mean, we kind of touched on it a little bit, but like Sean said, it can go anywhere. But it does go on any level of your home, it can be installed on, above, or below grade, even though it was designed to be a floating floor, you can glue it down or staple it down as well. So people don't have to shy away from it. Because if they really want to staple something down, they can do that with Kahrs as well. So we're very versatile as far as our installation goes.
Holiday Van Erem:Great points.
Michael Goria:For sure. Yeah. So if you're listening and you don't have Kahrs currently in your store, we would love to talk to you about it. Please reach out to your rep. Do not hesitate to get a hold of us. We will come and do a PK, but we would love to talk to you more. It is a fantastic line. It gives you opportunities unlike any other hardwood, in my opinion, in the market, and we really play that up. We really promote that from T&A. So definitely get a hold of us. We'd love to talk to you more about it.
Holiday Van Erem:So I do have a couple of last questions that I want to throw in there. Just some fun stuff.
Michael Goria:Please. Yeah.
Holiday Van Erem:So I have to ask because I'm a little Disney-obsessed right now. You guys are right outside of Orlando. What's your favorite Disney character?
Emily Holmes Williams:That would be Mickey and [QPOG
38:33].
Holiday Van Erem:Uh-huh. Yeah. Love it. We'll steamboat Mickey.
Sean Brennan:I'm kind of partial to Goofy. [Crosstalk
38:43]
Michael Goria:My typical Goofy question is, do you have a favorite cereal? I'm obsessed with cereal. I have lots of different favorites and different times of day, so I need to know yours.
Emily Holmes Williams:Kinda. Okay. You really have to--like in my cupboard, I have a lot of different cereals. My go-to is usually Frosted Mini-Wheats.
Holiday Van Erem:Oh, Frosted Mini-Wheats. Like it.
Michael Goria:They're good.
Sean Brennan:I can tell you when I was a kid, it was Lucky Charms, and I don't know why. I mean, I would pick out the marshmallows. I got definitely heavily focused on that. Today, I guess it would be--I don't know. It's probably Honey Nut Cheerios, actually.
Michael Goria:Honey Nut Cheerios are so good.
Holiday Van Erem:Yes. They've got a gluten-free option too, that I like to use.
Michael Goria:Nice. Toni, any other questions from you? Not to put you on the spot.
Holiday Van Erem:Oh, that's okay. What's your guys' favorite color?
Emily Holmes Williams:Favorite color, in general, or favorite color floor?
Toni Collier:You pick.
Holiday Van Erem:Oh, you pick. You decide how you answer that question.
Emily Holmes Williams:Our new Urban Brown floor is actually probably my favorite floor that I've seen in a long time. So I'm very excited about that one in a plank version. My favorite color overall is pink.
Holiday Van Erem:That's a good one.
Emily Holmes Williams:So many shades.
Sean Brennan:For me, it's definitely blue. I think I have pretty much everything blue.
Michael Goria:And do you have a favorite floor?
Sean Brennan:I'm partial to the white oak. That's just a natural white oak floor. I don't know why I've always gravitated toward those.
Michael Goria:Agreed?
Holiday Van Erem:Yeah.
Sean Brennan:I have it in my house.
Holiday Van Erem:Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, both Sean and Emily for taking some time to talk to us. I think it's really important for our sales team, our customers to understand where our products come from, and the companies that make them and all of that good stuff it gives them. Michael even learned something new today that he's going to use in his presentation. I think it's so important to do that. So I appreciate you guys taking the time. It's been very nice to talk to you.
Emily Holmes Williams:You, as well. Thanks for having us.
Sean Brennan:Yeah, no, we appreciate you including us on this. This is great.
Michael Goria:Yes. Thank you both. You know, I appreciate you, and we appreciate you hopping on.
Emily Holmes Williams:Thank you.
Holiday Van Erem:Thanks so much.
Michael Goria:Talk to you both soon.
Holiday Van Erem:What the Floor is a T&A Supply Company Inc, original production. You can find out more about us at TASupply.com or TASflooring.com.
Michael Goria:This show is produced by Paul Van Erem with help from Toni Collier, and hosted by Holiday Van Erem and Michael Goria.
Holiday Van Erem:Tell us what you think of the show by emailing us at wtfpodcast@tasupply.com or on social media#whatthefloorpodcast.